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Interested in Xeed

I am interested in the Xeed I have no 3d experience but I am a machinist with over a decade worth of experience.  I like the bigger build volume and on paper this looks like a good printer.  Is it worth it to buy this or am I better off purchasing the HS?  I hear Leapfrog take a lot of tweaking to get good parts. I am wanting to use this machine to rapid prototype some projects at work.  I have seen the Stratasys Uprint and was satisfied with the quality and sample parts the salesman showed me.  I am wondering if the Xeed and Leapfrog could give me similar prints.


Thank you


I just found this post. 

I purchased Xeed about month ago and had many problems. 

I was wondering i was only person experiencing these problems. 

I was pretty much same position as David.  At least firmware was updated since then and don't have trouble communicating with PC, but Jamming problem and quality problem is still same. 

   

Also there are many false advertisements. Such as 1.building volume is not 20L but 14L, 2.printing speed is not as fast as it said, 3.Never be able to print 10 Micron, 4.Xeed can not print PVA.


I'm not sure about HS printer quality but i think buying two of HS are better than one of Xeed and It will be still cheaper than Xeed.     


Dear Jason Clawson,


Thank you for your interest in our machines. 

I want to inform you that we are currently undergoing a complete revision for our Xeed 3d printer to improve its work-ability with many types of filaments and it will not be available for you immediately. If you are looking for a fast solution i can recommend you getting the HS because the waiting period is around 4 weeks or even less.

A 3D printer lives and dies on the design of it's extruders.  The remainder of the mechanism is so well evolved it's an afterthought.  The Xceed has the same extruders as the Creatr which are known to be unsuitable for flexible filaments, have no specific cooing for a heat break (essential in an extruder) and are difficult to service.  I leave the rest up to you.

 

I would have to agree with Cornel... Although the Xeed itself maybe shippable in 8 weeks? Cornel would know better but as he said thanks for the interest.


-Brandon

Thanks for the reply David, and Uke_Man 


Very interesting. I'm not an engineer but a product designer. For me this machine is the fifth 3d printer I have used and the first dual extruder printer. 

I concluded pretty much same as you two. Extruders are problem although there a many good features in Xeed comparing to other printers.

However unless I cannot print complex shape with support, there is no meaning using a dual extrude model. 

I liked using PLA generally for many reasoned and I used PLA with Xeed first. PLA single extrusion was OK. Then I wanted to print a complex design shape with dissolvable filament for my piece. 


I tried PLA + PVA but didn't work. PVA didn't even come out from an extrudeder at all. I understand why with Uke_Man's explanation.

 

I was told to use ABS + HIP instead by Leapfrog. I don't like using ABS but there was no choice. I tried ABS + HIPS. Both of them came out from extruders without problems and stuck on bed well too, but HIPS didn't stick on ABS at all and only made mess.


I cannot describe the detail of my design work but the piece is like a coca-cola can shape and I want to print the object with about 1/32 inc or less of wall thickness in one piece, and water tight and a little flex. So I want to print the piece in dual extruders with dissolvable support. I tried PLA+HIPS, Nylon+HIPS and PETG+HIPS. HIPS stuck none of materials . 

Are there any other material suggestion? 


Also about single extrusion. PLA, ABS and Nylon worked fine, but PETG clogged after 20 min. I tried many different temperature but all clogged after 20 min. Has anybody had same problem with PETG filament?

   





   

 



    


Hi Jason,


I am not sure if you are still monitoring this post / deciding to purchase the Xceed or other printer but i can confirm a few points based on my experience to-date with my purchase.


I purchased a Leapfrog Creatr HS (Dual Extruder) last year at the beginning of October and it took nearly (-3days) 3 months to arrive.


I have only had my printer for 2 weeks and spent some serious time, like up til 2am in the mornings after family has gone to bed. I have been trying to get consistent results and good repeatability from the printer without success and developing a modest amount of frustration.


In the 2 weeks I have had the machine I have had numerous faults and failures which is not impressing me given the sizable outlay purchase of this machine.


Faults include:

1a. Firmware unresponsive (meaning the printer frequently loses connection to the PC)

RESULT: Many hours in lost / unproductive time and many ruined / scrapped prints.


1b. In addition to this major Firmware problem, a recent test using the supplied USB cable (1.8M long) RESULT: The printer cannot connect to the PC.

ACTION BY LEAPFROG: Advised that there is a problem with the (printer) motherboard and a new one is being shipped (I believe express) - though I have no idea how this needs to be changed.


2. Operating the printer via a program download onto a Leapfrog supplied USB stick is also not trouble free as my experience has been where is freezes mid cycle

RESULT: to reset to the printer it needs to shutdown and restarted.


3. Filament jams on numerous occasion to the point where some disassembly of the feed mechanism is required to remove jammed filament.

RESULT: More wasted time and ruined / scrapped prints.


4. Software required updating as the extruder temperature would not remain constant.

ACTION: Luckily an easy fix, downloaded the new file and performed an update on the printer, seems to have helped - time will tell.


I too have maybe a similar background having spent 12years in Production & Product Engineering and am very familiar with CNC machines and programming / code though these days the software is good and takes care of that, I use Simplify 3D and by all accounts (based on 2 weeks) it seems to be quite a good piece of software, easy to use and plenty of functionality.


I had purchased the Leapfrog printer using comparison from competitors printers based on build volume, accuracy / quality (VERY SUBJECT POINT THIS).


One extremely key consideration is not to solely base the decision on a 'sample' which was printed on the machine - in hindsight I should have seen it printing parts in person and a reasonably variety based on what i intend to print not just get some generic sample sent to you.  

Unless you 'See' several part of simple / complex types being printed you have no idea:

1. How long it took to get the machine settings 'tuned' to make the print seem to work effortlessly.

2. How many (if any) errors occurred during the attempt(s) to get a final good / best print quality.


I originally purchased the printer to add to my business as a Consultant Design Engineer (in Aerospace / Automotive sectors).  Having the printer was to be able to win new customers and expand the client portfolio and provide a new level of service to existing customers.


You will understand given the high capital outlay without seeing any real tangible significant, productive, reliable/repeatable results I am seriously not a happy customer and far from impressed. Not only do I have a problem with this new machine I read that another customer who has only had his printer 4 days is also reporting a problem not unlike what I experience.


I would like to remain positive as I am but I am reserving judgement that if I cannot get any reasonably expected degree of repeatable / consistent quality then perhaps the final option is to return the printer. That would be most disappointing given the time I have spent on becoming familiar with this machine. I generally think that it compares well against other printers on the market on balance.


Interestingly I asked about the Xceed also as I see there is a price difference of some 5.000 EUR and asked what justified this level of increased cost - I did not get a really good reply. I like everyone have seen the comparisons but not sure if i see the value but this is somewhat subjective based on ones own needs.


Last comment, I would take the time to investigate first hand and determine if the printer can actually produce the result that you need and be thorough in understanding under what conditions are each print produced.


Not sure if this gives you some food for thought but I would be interested to know what you did or end doing?


Regards,


David.

Hello Yoshi,


Sorry to hear you've had so many problems.

What further information is missing from this discussion is much much more.

The ultimate conclusion to all this was that all my reporting, testing and back and forth resulted in a replacement printer being sent.


Though I must have just been plain unlucky as the 2nd / replacement printer had many more problems that the first.  Though some issue had been resolved it unfortunately become such a drain on my time that I decided it was time to make a decision.


That was I wrote an extremely detailed engineering (as is my profession) reporting identifying many issues, 9 plus 3 suggestions for company improvements. This report involved what I had done to resolve them, Leapfrogs response, my follow up, then final comment.  After registering this case with Leapfrog the printer will be shipped back for refund.


I even went to the extent of including design calculations to show where there was an issue with the printer hotend set screw holding the thermistor.  The design calculation included formula and detailed explanation as to the justification for the use and where the issues were for using a short set screw in a soft aluminium block with insufficient material to allow the enough torque to be applied (even by hand) without resulting damage (damage here refers to  stripped thread in the hotend block)


In the end the whole situation just was not working for me and I simply ran out of time to continually keep working effectively reporting issues and not seeing results.


In addition I have now 12 rolls of filament that once I opened are not returnable (this reads as lost money over 400 EURO ... There is a warning / caveat here.  If you purchase filament from Leapfrog and may have even the slightest possibility of needing to return it - DO NOT OPEN IT - Leapfrog WILL NOT accept this back.


You may ask why so many well for the business model I intended to run needed a good range to compete and naively thought the 2nd / replacement printer would be absolutely trouble free which obviously was for this printer at least not the case.


Also I did highlight issues I felt were not consistent with the advertised specs for example the bed temp (if I recall) is supposedly able to reach 95 degrees though I am not sure of other printers but this would struggle to get above 85 degrees and that took near 20mins.  If you had a 'glitch' and needed to restart due to blocked nozzle you lost easily hours trying to print with say ABS or NYLON.


Anyway this is not a bashing session but merely to highlight that you are not alone with the challenges you faced.  Though luckily for me I persevered and achieved a mutually satisfactory result that I will return the printer and receive a refund.


I hope what ever choice you make you are happy with especially knowing how much the Xeed cost.....?


As for buying a HS I would advise checking a lot of reviews first as what you don't see from a user point of view is all the cases people raise tickets for regarding issues.. For example you see in the forums what people are searching for answers on but imagine what is also raised in the Tech Support for issues that are not publicly accessible.... food for thought. 


Regards,


David.

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